Update (08/03/2002):
Marguerite dar Boggia quoted Zip Dobyns in July 2002, that Karen Hamaker-Zondag said she had data for Osama bin Laden from his hospital records. It is March 10, 1957, in Jiddah, Saudi Arabia, at 10:58 AM EET.

LMR wrote email to Karen who answered, “My source is the same as Noel Tyl's: William de Rijcke in Belgium, a physician and astrologer, who has a good friend working at Interpol. This friend has been searching the archives of Interpol and found the date and time. He gave this to William de Rijcke who in his turn spread the news. I heard somebody mentioning that it was a hospital record, but I am not 100% sure it is. Maybe Noel knows, as he also has informed several people metioning William de Rijcke.

I knew already for quite some time that Interpol stuck to March 10, 1957. They insisted that the data the US govenment used were wrong. So I was not surprised that this date was mentioned by the friend of William de Rijcke.”

Noel Tyl wrote, “As you probably did, I was deluged with everyone's theory about bin Laden. As you probably didn't (:-) I threw it all out after a while, because it was all so wild and confusing. …..One of my students, Alan Ouimet, is a retired FBI agent. He tried to tap into the Interpol annals, etc.”

Alan J. Ouimet wrote, 7/26/2002, “Dear Lois and Noel: I am only to happy to share concerning Usama. The Interpol DOB - no time indicated is March 10, 1957 in Jidda. I have worked with this chart and am convinced that of the many DOB's on him - this is the one.”

To trace William de Rijcke, LMR wrote an email to Grietje Versavel 7/29/02.
Grietje answered, “I' ve just talked with Dr. William De Rijke on the telephone. Indeed, he's a physician and also an astrologer. He got birthdata for B.L. through a patient of his, working in one of the Interpol Departments and sent these data to a Dutch astrologer named Ed Noordman from Zwolle, (The Netherlands) who needed them for his mundane astrology interpretation.

You can check with him (Ed Noordman) for these data as Dr De Rijke didn't keep the data himself.
William De Rijke's address: Hoevenzalen laan, # 12, 3.600-Genk, Belgium
Tel: 00-32-89/38.22.41 De Rijke has no e-mail address. He doesn't speak nor understand English very well, so has told me. He could not understand the e-mail letter you sent me when I read this e-mail message to him on the telephone.

If you need some more info, or if I can do something for you about the info of these data, just let me know. Meanwhile, all the very best, dear Lois, from Grietje”

LMR noted, 7/31/2002, “The policy of AstroDatabank is that when data with many contradictions is said to be a specific date and time, documentation is required. Inasmuch as we are not able to get official records and I do not even have any copy of an Arabian birth certificate to know if the time of birth is indeed recorded, or whether Interpol has a hospital or family record, I find it necessary to keep a rating of DD on these data. Though I would dearly wish to say that we have an accurate and precise date and time for bin Laden, these are still hearsay data, second hand at best. I could only recommend that we study the charts with caution.
Thanks to all for your good research help.”

(Former discussion on the bin Laden data follows:
#Anna van der Zon, by email, quotes website http://www.interpol.int/public/wanted/notices/data/1998/32/1998_20232.asp

#Peter Bergen, author of "Holy War, Inc," Simon & Schuster, gave March 10, 1957, related in an excerpt in Vanity Fair magazine Dec/2001.

#Zip Dobyns writes, " I'm testing a time of about 4:50 PM, 3 hours later than UT."

#LMR working with 2:23 PM as of 9/18/2001.
Other dates are given:

#Kelly Wicker writes, "So far there are three birth times known.
July 30 1957
March 10 1957
June 27 1957

#Robert Blaschke seems to be doing a fair amount of research on this subject. The 3rd I received from a friend (ex-FBI), I do not know the source but could find out. Hope this helps."

#Robert Blaschke sends the following: From a US State Department Factsheet located at the following website,
http://www.fpc.gov/CRS_reps/crsterr3.htm, we find that Osama bin Laden was born July 30, 1957, presumably in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.)

#A U.S. government factsheet gives "around 1955.")

#Michael Rideout sent the following comprehensive post on 9/16/2001:
"Regarding the birth date of Usamah Bin Laden, I've seen web pages that mention only a year-- 1955, 1956, 1957, and 1958-- and I've seen web pages and posts that give a variety of dates-- March 10, 1957; April 7, 1957; June 28, 1957; July 28, 1957; July 30, 1957; and October 3, 1957.
"According to an interview with Bin Laden which can be found on various web pages, he himself has given his year of birth as 1377 AH ("1377 hegira"). If that is so, then he had to have been born sometime between approximately July 29, 1957 and July 17, 1958-- give or take a day or so for both dates. This would mean that 1955 and 1956 are out of the question-- nor can March 10, 1957; April 7, 1957; and June 28, 1957 be correct.

"I think the July 28, 1957 and July 30, 1957 dates look suspicious because they are approximately the first day of the Islamic year 1377 AH. The first day of each month is tricky to determine either ahead of time, or by a computer algorithm, because it begins when the crescent Moon is first spotted following the New Moon, and this event is subject to various factors. Also, the day begins at sunset on what we would call the previous day, so if for example the first day of 1377 AH was July 29, 1957, this would mean that it actually began at sunset on July 28, 1957!

"Obviously, it's possible that Bin Laden was indeed born on the first day of 1377 AH. However, I can't help wondering if the July 28, 1957 and July 30, 1957 dates might conceivably have been arrived at in the following way:

"Question: "When was Bin Laden born?"
"Answer: "In 1377 AH."

"Question: "And when was 1377 AH?"
"Answer: "On July 28 [or 30], 1957."

"As far as the other dates, I've personally seen people convert dates incorrectly from one calendar to another. For example, I used to work for a Korean-born man (whose family moved to America when he was a child) who celebrates his birthday as February 14, 1958, although he told me that he actually has two birthdays. When I asked him what he meant, he said he'd been told that he was born on the 14th day of the 2nd month of the Year of the Dog. The Year of the Dog began in 1958, so he had arbitrarily decided to celebrate his birthday on February (2nd month) 14 (14th day), 1958 (Year of the Dog)-- even though a correct conversion would put his birthday on about April 2, 1958 (depending on what time the day begins in Korea, as well as time zone considerations). The Year of the Dog didn't even begin until February 18, 1958-- four days after the day he celebrates as his birthday! It might be possible that Bin Laden's birthday-- if it's even known-- was incorrectly converted in such a fashion (e.g., the 10th day of the 3rd month).

"I would also point out the uncertainty surrounding Dodi's birthday (remember Diana and Dodi?), as his birthday had been given as April 15, but it was stated by several people that it's a fairly common practice in the Middle East to use the 15th of the month as the birthday, due to the fact that they don't always note the actual day of birth, just the month and year of birth. Even though none of the dates given for Bin Laden fall on the 15th of a month in the Gregorian calendar, we should beware of the possibility of a similar practice of using some arbitrary day of the Islamic month of birth.

"Then there is the possibility that, some years ago, someone in an intelligence agency may have heard that Bin Laden had just celebrated his birthday (if he even celebrates his birthday) on some day of the year, such as March 10. They may have then taken that date and used it with his year of birth, which seems to have been 1957 (or perhaps 1958). If this sort of thing did happen, it would be wrong, as a particular date (month and day) in the Islamic year does not fall on the same date each year in the Gregorian calendar. For example, if it had been learned that Bin-Laden had celebrated his 30th birthday on March 10, 1987, it would be incorrect to conclude that he was therefore born on March 10, 1957. It just doesn't work that way.

"Also, when Prince Dipendra murdered his family and shot himself, I saw some web pages which gave his birthday incorrectly, and they cited CIA sources! This makes me wonder if the "field information" gathered by intelligence agencies can be trusted, especially when it comes to people's birthdays.

"Additionally, there is always the chance that a Gregorian date written in numeric format might be misread, such as 3-10-1957 being variously read as either March 10, 1957 or 3 October, 1957.
"In light of these facts and considerations, I would be extremely cautious about accepting *any* date of birth for Bin Laden without a grain of salt the size of Jupiter."

#Jayj Jacobs reports that "Bin Laden, Al-Jazeera - and I'' by Jamal Abdul Latif Ismail, includes an interview in which
Bin Laden says he was born 45 years ago, in the Muslim year of 1377, in the Saudi capital of Riyadh. The family later moved between the two holy cities of Mecca and Medina and the port city of Jiddah. (Four months after Aug 1998 is December. 1998 minus 45 is 1953.)

#David G. Baker deduces January 3, 1955, 8:50:03 AM.

#Robert Currey writes 12/2001, "Justin Toper telephoned to say his contact confirms UBL was born in July 1957 though he has no more details. So I am sorry not to be able to provide at this stage. As I have mentioned his source [who Justin wants to remain confidential] is a journalist in the Middle East who has kept a file on UBL from birth and though the journalist has access to 'official records' not open to the public, he says that the record of the day of birth was not kept."

#Tony Louis writes on 12/10/01: “This message appeared on Angelicus Merlin. Included is my reply:
The site http://www.islamicfinder.org  has a conversion program.
The 10th day of the 3rd Month of 1377 Hijri =
Gregorian-Hijri Dates Converter
Day / Month / Year Hijri
You entered: 10 / 3 / 1377
The conversion result is: Friday 4 October 1957 C.E.
(There is a small probability of one day error.)

#CF Perez wrote:
"I had acquired information from a Muslim historian, (on the Internet) who said bin Laden was born 3rd month, 10th day of the Muslim calendar year 1377.
The FBI lists his DOB as March 10, 1957--the third month and tenth day of our calendar year--incorrectly transposing the Islamic days and months for ours, getting the year correctly. The March 10 1957 date confirms that the 3rd month and 10th day are what we are looking for. I fear that I cannot I go back to check this Muslim data (3rd month, tenth day, year 1377) and need a little help to conclude that these indications are consistent with the facts. The pages I once had access to on 9/11 are now gone. So, I go from memory on this, frustratingly! If someone has access to the Arabic notation for the bin Laden birth, and I have remembered incorrectly, let me know, please. It will, if proven incorrect, make all the following false.

"Following the story after September 11 with some vehemence, I examined all the charts proposed at the Astrodatabank.com site. Proposed dates include:
March 10, July 27 or 29 and Oct. 3, in 1957. The October 3rd chart stood out like a sore thumb, but I had to wait to resolve the problem between the calendars before I could comment.

#Michael Rideout, among other judicious comments on the conversions of the calendars, makes a point about the possibility that the March 10 and October 3 dates may have had the month/date transposed. The 10th month and 3rd day "switch" is a curious phenomenon: the calendar translator would verify that the Muslim date occurs on the 10th month of our calendar, and on the third day (10/03)! But, it is not a classic mix-up between date and month. Instead, a pattern emerges which explains all the dates at once.

"Everyone tried using our Western dates to describe the bin Laden date. That is clearly foggy thinking. Using Michael Rideout's (www.astrodatabank.com) article about the Islamic calendar, the new moon of July 27th (on our calendar) would mark the first day of the Muslim year
1377, the "New Year's Eve" of 1957.

"We must realize that the use of the crescent moon as a symbol for the Muslim World would be tied to the culture's calendar tradition. In Muslim fashion, we would count the two days following the new moon to sight the first appearance of the crescent moon, and so the established counting of the first day of the year is at the first appearance of the crescent moon, occurring usually within two days, probably the 29th or 30th of July, 1957,
depending on one's location. If the crescent cannot be viewed until some later hour, it may depend on sea level and horizon variances as well.

"Michael Rideout says of July 27, that since it signifies the first day of the year, that it is the year significator, and a popular way to show discretion with private information: just give the year. All the July dates (27-30) in 1957 are "Happy New Year," and generically related to the new year holiday, not necessarily the birth data of bin Laden. After the new moon of July, using our calendar (the Muslim month of "Muharram") we may find the third month, count forward another ten days and expect to find the correction between the two calendars, ours and the one followed by the Muslim population. The next new moon (for month Two) occurs Aug. 26, month "Safar"; the third new moon occurs on Sept 23, month "Rabi-Awwal." Now, add ten days to the Sept 23 new moon and we find October 3 1957, "three months and ten days of 1377." October 3rd is the date which actually does appear to be in the third month (Rabi-Awwal) and tenth day--following the appearances of the New Moon's crescent after Day One of year 1377, the year of bin Laden's birth. I make this conclusion perhaps too quickly, but the little bit of math just seemed to fit too perfectly--this after having seen and been very impressed by the
chart for October 3, 1957.

"I was inclined to place the sun on the ascendant, so I drew a chart for 6:16 a.m. I have now revised that to be about an hour earlier, in order to fit the constellated Mars/Jupiter "besiegement" of his Sun into the first house. This is a pure guess, but it seemed to emphasize the story of his fame and his inclinations quite neatly. I put the sun on the ascendant because Bin Laden's face is as familiar to us "as the sun." To his adherents, he represents the Sun. To us in the western world, he may represent the alchemical world's Black Sun.

"The Sun on the ascendant--when I looked at this date a few weeks ago, right after the attacks--immediately struck me because of the purely Libra characteristics of his face, which correspond to the appearance of the typical Libra qualities: high arched brow, mild, polite manner. His smiling "beatific" attitude seems just so blessedly pacific: Libra. With that besieged solar ascendant I found a spectacular signature which describes the high, arched (Libra) eyebrows and the medical history: he has been on kidney dialysis in the last 4 years. (Kidney is ruled by Libra).

"One of his teachers, "Brian Fyfield-Shayler, 69, gave the then 13-year-old bin Laden and 30 other privileged classmates attending al-Thagh school, an élite Western-style Saudi school in Jedda, four one-hour English lessons a week during 1968 and 1969. He described bin Laden as a 'shy, retiring and courteous' boy who was unfailingly polite. 'He was very courteous - more so than any of the others in his class. Physically, he was outstanding because he was taller, more handsome and fairer than most of the other boys. He also stood out as he was singularly gracious and polite, and had a great deal of inner confidence,' said Fyfield-Shayler." Seems there are enough Libra keywords in that paragraph.
http://www.observer.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,582138,00.html

"Jupiter rules the 6th house. Libra's ruler Venus is in her fall, in the 2nd house, in Scorpio, ruled by the warrior Mars--in a mutual reception. Venus' lack of strength in Scorpio (for health indicators) cannot help but weaken the Jupiter. But it strengthens Mars, as he is located on the
ascendant. Ruler of the chart Venus is at 22 Scorpio, currently getting the square from Uranus. He is currently agitated, indeed. Probably moving around a bit and with inconveniences--interruptions. The south node is in the 8th house, squared Uranus in Leo in the 11th of this chart leading me to believe a brief sudden death will be his fate. I guess we all say, "Duh!" to that. This would perhaps be in an aircraft, like his father before him, who died in the US in 1968 in a Cessna crash--his own plane.

"The genesis of Bin Laden's conversion, Salhi says, began between 1977 and 1978, as radical Palestinian groups emulated Ayatollah Khomeini's use of cassette tapes to propagate the Islamic revolution in Iran in their operations against Israel."
http://globalarchive.ft.com/globalarchive/articles.html?id=010414007821&query=hoyos

"Also, using this birth date and progressing to January 1979, when the Russians exited Afghanistan, the 22nd year of life which occasioned his "conversion" to take to the Afghani cause and shun his comfortable background, I find the progressed ascendant at ZERO Scorpio. How fitting, to leave the rulership of Venus (which is ruled by Mars anyway) and absorb the Scorpio rulership of Mars as a life significator.

"Between 1989-1991 Saudi officials seized bin Ladin's passport in a bid to prevent him from consolidating contacts with extremists whom he had befriended during the Afghan war. In 1991, he migrated from the Arabian peninsula after declaring the Saudi ruling family corrupt and 'insufficiently Islamic'."
http://ariel.unimelb.edu.au/~ronilins/WPT/Profiles/ladin.html

"In 1994, he was stripped of his citizenship in Saudi Arabia.
Given the "acceptance process" to which bin Laden was subjected by the Taliban, a rather dare devil procedure involving the stealing of jetliners to provide wholesale importation of tons of goods--presumably weaponry--from various locations in Islam--he obviously passed muster with the Taleban in 1996.

"With the Taliban's blessing, Bin Laden effectively had hijacked Ariana, the national civilian airline of Afghanistan. For four years, according to former U.S. aides and exiled Afghan officials, Ariana's passenger and charter flights ferried Islamic militants, arms, cash and opium through the United Arab Emirates and Pakistan. Members of Bin Laden's Al Qaeda terrorist network were provided false Ariana identification that gave them free run of airports in the Middle East."
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-111801osamair.story

"A mutual reception 'you scratch my back, and I'll return the favor,' is clearly the arrangement between the Taliban and bin Laden. A calendar translator helped my work here:
http://www.rocketdownload.com/Details/Math/calmag.htm

"I thank Joan Griffith, who recently joined the All_ancient discussion as a student of the history of calendars, and who does not have one astrological bone in her body, according to her private statement. She provided the key to discovering this bit of calendar work by sending me a link to a piece of free software to translate the calendars which provided the missing piece of the puzzle.

I will post this item at my website with more data as time permits.
Claire-France Perez
http://www.AncientSky.com"